Coni Longden-Jefferson  0:00  

And I think I also had massively underestimated that how quickly those feelings of sadness and disappointment and heartbreak, essentially can come in. It's just feels like a massive juggling act, doesn't it? When you're like, trying to juggle your physical health, you're trying to stay on it with the fatigue stuff, you're trying to have sex all the time that you can, but then you're kind of just slowly falling apart, like both personally out as a couple.

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Amber Izzo  0:24  

Hello. You are listening to misconception, a Gaia family podcast. My name is Amber Izzo, and I am your host. Each week we release a new episode talking about the various paths to parenthood, from community stories to conversations with experts. We've got you covered. Gaia's mission is to make IVF more accessible for more people with a financial plan that allows you to start and protect your IVF and access to a community who just get it. We're here for you. You can request a free personalized quote at gaiafamily.com. This week, we're speaking to Coni Longden-Jefferson. Coni is the founder of Nixi Body and has worked alongside fertility brands such as Exseed and Meet Parla. She writes for, content creates and works alongside reproductive health brands, but has recently started sharing her own fertility journey. Coni joins us to talk about the early stages of trying to conceive when you first suspect an issue and are trying to navigate the next steps. We're really excited to talk to her, so let's bring her in. Coni, hello, thank you so much for joining us. How are you?

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  1:33  

Hello, I'm I'm great. It's so nice to chat to you again. Obviously, I saw you at the Gaia brunch the other week, which was fab, but thank you so much for inviting me on. I know you've got some incredible guests on this series, so I'm really honored to be part of this conversation. 

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Amber Izzo  1:50  

Thank you. It's lovely to have you. I've already prepped you, and I think we'll start this the same way that we've kind of started everybody else's by just asking you to tell us your story. It's your story. Let's hear it in your words, rather than me doing it for you.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  2:03  

Okay, great. So I guess even before we get started on my fertility journey, like it might be helpful to give some context, I know we're going to talk about this. So I've actually worked in and around the fertility space for around five or six years now. Now I'm not a doctor, I'm not an embryologist, I'm not quite as clever as that, but, you know, I work in marketing, branding, content, events, so I spent a lot of time around people like yourself, you know, interviewing people, writing articles, doing research for stuff. I've worked with brands like parler and Holland and Barrett and Exseed on the male side, and I do a lot of stuff around reproductive health and mental health generally. So I've been in this world for a while, but then last year, it became my also my personal life as well as my work. So that has been a huge, huge shift. So my husband and I, we got married in 2022 we had a covid wedding that had to get moved. So our whole, like, life plan was already pushed back by a year because of that. And I think we'd always been like, okay, we'll get married, and then maybe we'll have a bit of time just to enjoy being married. I don't know what we think we're doing in that time of, like, when you've been together so long, you're like, really, like, it's no different. Like, why are we, like, ah, then we'll be married, and then suddenly it'll be absolutely amazing for a year, 

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but for about a week after our wedding, I really had that honeymoon period feels, and then we got back from our honeymoon, just like, can you take the bins out?

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So I think that was always the plan. And then, to be honest, I'd actually been off hormonal contraception for ages because of my work in this space, like, I become really interested in, like, testing my hormones, engaging in my cycle, and all that sort of stuff. So there wasn't, like, a, when do we come off contraception? But it was more like, when do we stop being careful, I suppose. And I know you and I have talked about this Amber like, when people say, when did you start trying? Like, it kind of is, like, a bit of a bit of a gray area at the start where you're a bit like, well, we weren't not trying, but we weren't giving it all we've got exactly so I would say, like, we did leave it about a no, hang on, no. We didn't leave about a year. Maybe we left it about six months, or something like that. And then we were like, Okay, right? That's, let's start giving this a bit of a go kind of thing. And, you know, it's all fun at the start, and it's all like, oh, like, we're having a bit more sex than usual. Like, isn't this nice and all that kind of thing. But I would say quite quickly, and I don't know if this is my personality or the fact that I work in this space, like, I've got a bit of a lack of innocence around this sort of stuff, but quite quickly I was like, it's not happening. What's going on? Let's try and figure this out. You know, I wanted to go and be an investigator and try and find out straight away, like, why this wasn't happening. And I think I also had massively underestimated that how quickly they. Feelings of sadness and disappointment and heartbreak, essentially, can come in. Like, you know, I've spent my career interviewing people who have got incredible stories, who have tried for so long, and you're like, of course, that's heartbreaking. Like, of course, that's hard, but people don't often talk about that first six months or even that first year. And so I guess I thought it would all be lovely and fine and dandy until maybe things really weren't going right, and then maybe that's where the sadness would come in. But actually, quite quickly, within the first two or three months of trying, that two week wait, that disappointment of getting my period like it really, really got to me. And I think that that was it just kind of surprised me. It kind of took to the wind up my sails, really. And I think that. Like, I guess I thought that I was alone in that, and then I started sharing a little bit about that on social media, and I had loads of people message me like, oh my god, yeah, no. Like, the first, even the first month that it didn't happen, I got really, really upset. And you're kind of like, Oh no, this is something that people are going through, but so few people talk about that early. I mean, so few people talk about fertility full stop. But I think so few people talk about that early stage of of of trying. You know, I think it's not it takes a lot for people to have the courage to not even share their story publicly, but even share it with their family or their friends. And people certainly don't want to share it with their colleagues. So I think there's so much secrecy shrouded in those in those early year or two or months, or whatever. So anyway, so I found it really hard, and we started kind of trying to figure out what was going wrong. And it, it kind of felt like, I described it as, like, whack a mole, like, it was kind of like, this is what it is. This is what it is. It was like, I'm not producing enough cervical mucus. That must be the thing. Let's try and solve that. Oh, now my cycle's gone irregular, right? Let's try and solve that. That's the problem. You know? It was, like, this kind of thing just constantly, like, each month, almost like, doing, like, an analyzing, like, right? What do we do different this month? What didn't happen? Like, what can we do next month? You know? So that went on for like, a few months, and then we started to do a few investigations. Like, I said, like, I'm really lucky that I have clients in this space. Like, I've worked with Hertility and Exseed I mentioned, so I have access to at home testing, which obviously never replaces, kind of like full medical testing. But I think can be a helpful first step, just to start, like, understanding what's going on and if there could be any issues. And then after that, we eventually, I was like, right? We need to go to the doctors. Now, you can delete this if you want, so I don't feel allowed to say this, but we went before a year because I was just like, there is no way. Like, I know how long this stuff takes. Like, I know that, you know, we'll be waiting for everything for so long so like, and I'm really glad we did, because, you know, I mean, put it this way, I went to see my doctor in September, and I'm still yet to have a pelvic exam, because I've been referred, and I'm just sat in the waiting thing and so anyway, so you went to the doctors, and it's just really, that was just probably, like, the toughest part, like, I'd say, like, we just went through a really, really dark three months where, like, we were doing all these tests, and like, my tests were sort of coming back, okay, but my cycles were all over the place. So I would like, I was battling with the doctors. They were like, you're fine. And I was like, I'm not. And I know I'm not fine, because I also have friends that are experts in this space, and they're looking at my hormones, and they've got a different opinion. And, you know, I think the NHS have very broad, you know, kind of like levels of what is acceptable and what's not. And I sort of knew my heart of hearts, that something wasn't right with me, but they were kind of just being quite dismissive, and I found that really difficult. And then on the flip side, my husband's results were coming back with that there were clear issues that we weren't aware of. So we were looking at issues with morphology, particularly, and some issues with count. So it kind of was like, at that point, it was like, right? This is a male factor issue, and we got referred to a fertility hospital, which I'm still yet to be invited to, because I'm just sat in the ether of the wait list stuff now, but obviously I don't know. Well I say obviously, I don't know how much people know about this, but the NHS fertility system is so female focused. So we got this referral based on the fact that my husband's results weren't what we wanted to see, and that the suspicion is that that is what's causing the issue with our fertility. But then you're like, okay, so what's the next stage? Well, we're going to shove this up your vagina and we're going to put dye through your fallopian tubes, do this, that and the other. And obviously I'm like, totally fine. Like, please do it. Like, I want to know everything that's going on. If there is something with me, then please tell me. But then it's like, and what about the male factor? Because, like, that seems to be where the main thing concern is, well, we don't really test anything else. Like, we can do the test again in three months time, but like, ultimately on your way, like, that's it. And that was where, literally, the contact and the support stopped, and that was about nearly three months ago now. So, as I'm sure you would have covered in your intro, like I am still relatively, I mean, I've been trying for over a year now, so it doesn't feel like I'm early stages, but in the grand scheme of a fertility journey, like I'm still, I haven't even got out the gate yet, because we are, you know, potentially going for treatment at some point this year, but I've just got stuck in the system, which is really stressful, and really a test of patience, which I have absolute zero of, so a nightmare, and I think it's just been like I said, I think that towards the end of last year, like when we started to get new results, we weren't getting the support we needed, like the intense pressure it put on us as a couple, like we were both, like, heartbroken in our own ways. I'm sure you've been through this, and you just think, oh my god, we so used to be a team, and right now, we feel like we are, like, just splitting off into our own little directions of, like, heartbreak, basically. And like, it's just been so difficult. Like, we've really had to work our relationship. We've had to work on ourselves, work on our, like, mental health. And I think, like, it's just feels like a massive juggling act, doesn't it? When you're, like, trying to juggle your physical health, you're trying to stay on it with the two stuff, you're trying to have sex all the time that you can, but then you're kind of just slowly falling apart, like, both personally as a couple, yeah? So I think kind of like, that's where we're at, really, that's the story we are still, really, there's so much story to go. You know, we we don't have a baby yet. We don't have any answers yet. Really, like, there's suspicions of stuff, and we're pursuing private tests for my partner, and obviously waiting for my finally get the call up. Feel like it's very Hunger Games, like you get called out to the clinic to actually, but it just feels like a big weight in game, a big test of patience and a big test of, like, emotional resilience. And last year was, yeah, it was a lot. But I feel like we've come into we've come into 2024, a bit more positive. I think New Year just does that to you. I think we were so convinced we were going to have a baby in 2023 or get pregnant in 2023 and then sort of gets the end of year, and you just realize that's not going to happen, whereas, like, I feel like, when it's January, you kind of like, we've got 12 months to play with here. It could happen this year. So I feel like we're feeling a bit more positive, but I am also conscious that I feel like you get these waves of positivity and then something happens, it takes you right back down, and then you have to build your resilience up again. So yeah, that's where we're at.

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Amber Izzo  12:11  

I mean, how was it for you? Like, going into the you obviously said that you went to the doctors before 12 months, which is what most people are advised. Like the NHS guidance is that you seek help when it's been 12 months. And I know that there's obviously been instances where people have gone and they've been told to come back, yeah, reach that 12 month mark. Other I think sometimes it depends on the GP. Depends what you already know, what you don't know. So how was that process for you? Like going into the NHS and sitting down with your GP and having that conversation? Did you feel listened to?

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  12:42  

That's a really good question. I think I would say our GP is a really nice, well meaning man. And I think that, I mean, I would say that, like, there was a tinge on the phone of the relax and it'll happen vibe, you know, like, but do keep trying because, you know, like, if you just sometimes, if you just don't worry too much, and you know that there was a bit of that going on, I remember just thinking, go away. That's not what I want to hear. I did feel listened to. And I think that I feel, did I feel listened to? Actually, I'm trying to think here. I think I am in, because of my work, I'm in a position to advocate for myself really quite well. So I think, like, he kind of had no choice but to listen, because I wasn't calling for advice. Do you know what I mean? I was like, Hi, this is what's going on. You know? Yes, I'm tracking my cycle, my basal temperature. Yes, I've done this. Yeah, you know? I was like, there is a problem here, you know, I wasn't calling up as, like, hiya, like, I'm a bit concerned. I was like, quite like, on it. So I guess I did feel listened to. But I also think he was just a bit like, oh, okay, cool. Like, whatever you want. Scary, scary, angry woman. Like, you know, fine. Like, I'll do the test, but when we went, I will say, actually, like that was when we had the phone calls, and then when we went back, so we so we had a phone call with him, and I got my bloods. And obviously you have to do your bloods at different times your cycle and all this type, type of thing. So I guess I did my bloods. And I was the first test I did, actually, just because of how it fell on my cycle, was my day 21 progesterone test. So for anyone that's not aware, like, basically, what that's essentially trying to do is confirm ovulation, right? So your your progesterone should be quite high at day 21 because you should have ovulated, in theory, around day 14 ish, if you're like, oh, it's not the same. It's not the same. For me, it's not right. It's not how I mind anything. But again, even that is messed up. It's like, well, the levels are basing it on the four basing on the fact that what you ovulated seven days ago, but if you ovulate on day 20, your levels are going to say that they're low, even though you have ovulated anyway. I digress. This is like, see, this is the angry like, I want to talk about hormones woman that the doctors have to deal with. But what really annoyed me about that was I got my test results through the app, and it just said, no comment. There was no flag, and nobody called me, but I got my results saying my progesterone was really low and I hadn't ovulated, so I'd had an anovulation cycle, which is a pretty big deal if you're trying to conceive, and no one contacted me, and no one said there was a problem with it. It said, you know that the app, you know is like, you could see from the scale that it was low, but there was no comment from my GB, and no one from my doctor called me. So that happened, and then when Mike got his results, the same thing happened. Just got them through an app clear issues, and nobody called us. So again, I'm like, right? So I'm here, and I could screenshot all of those results and send them to like five people that are my friends in the industry, that can be that most people don't have that have that at their disposal. So if that is how people are receiving their test results and then not having a follow up from their doctor, they could be so confused or so lost, or maybe not even realize that there's a problem. Yeah, so like, Yes, I felt listened to from a GP when I actually had the interaction with them. But I will say there were points in that process that really made me think and like, look, God, love the NHS. I love it. My husband's a paramedic. He's giving his whole life to it. But I was like, oh, wow. Like, this is being mishandled like this is not good. And then we have when we eventually did, speak to our doctor, and we got to see him together, which was about six weeks, two months after the original test, that I just was a nightmare. He was really nice, but very uninformed, you know, couldn't even tell me where I was getting referred to. Couldn't even tell me what the tests were going to be when I got referred. Couldn't tell me what the wait list is, which, I guess you know, maybe they don't know, but they was, he was, it was just literally, like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We asked to get a second test of Mike's semen because, really, you want to be testing them quite close, because you might just get this a snapshot. And think most like private testing places like to get, you know, a bit of a benchmark, maybe, you know, to kind of, no, we can't do that. We were a few that fuse that I pushed for a few more hormone tests. But, like I said, that was me going in there with, like, a list of questions that my fertility expert friends had said, This is what you need to ask for. This is what tests you need to get. You know, I had that, I had that strength and that support to advocate for myself, but it made me really concerned for people who don't have that, because I just thought, Oh, my God, if I'm finding this difficult and I have all the support that you really could wish for in this situation, how is your average couple who have come into this with little foundational knowledge? How are they navigating this without the support from their GP, which is their only source of support.

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Amber Izzo  17:43  

Yeah, and that's it. I guess, by being in the industry, in some level, you've definitely had some kind of guidance there, and the knowledge base that most people don't have. And you know, you spoke about how, you know people don't necessarily announce that they're trying to conceive. People don't look for that support until they're really in the thick of it. So for you, I mean, I remember us having a conversation about this at the fertility show last year, which was, you know, coming up to a year ago now, and you have been quite open about the fact that you were trying and being in those early stages. And I mean, how has that been for you? Because it isn't like it is when you watch TV, you watch the movies, and people are, oh, we're trying, and it's this thing that's almost celebrated and announced when the reality is, quite often people don't do that. And it is almost a bit of a taboo, a bit of a stigma, where people don't announce it because other people kind of see it as well that you're just having more sex at this point. Like, do we all need to know that you're having sex? But actually, like you say, those first kind of once the initial novelties of novelty of it has worn off, and you're starting to think, okay, it's not happening as quickly as we would have liked. Here, what's happening, it can be quite difficult to know where to find that support. So from your perspective, how's it been being so open, and how has that been received? Like, not just on social media, but in your personal life too.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  19:00  

So really good question. And I think I'm sure you feel the same, like your social life, your social media life, and then your real social life, like, obviously, they cross over a lot, and so you're suddenly like, well, I'm going public with this. So like, now, like my granddad who follows me on social knows.

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Okay let's break this question down. I think, like, for me at the start, yeah, like you said, like, we we'd have a few, like, casual conversations of like, yeah, you know, we're gonna try. But like you said, you do just feel like you're just going around being like, we're shagging loads basically

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Amber Izzo  19:35  

We tried to make a baby last night. 

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  19:38  

Yeah exactly. I think, like, it wasn't until I'm trying to think, like, the first time that I really, like spoke about it, I know that when it comes to talking to friends and family, that was quite a big deal, actually, because my mom, so I'm trying to think maybe I remember it was like, June, July, and my mom, sort of, like, had known, I think we would, which, you know, we were, like hoping for a baby this year. And, you know, she knows how babies are made. So I think she had an idea that we were like, you know, doing something. But she, um, she called me up one day, and sort of was like, and I get it because I think some I think think some people, sorry, I think culturally, I think we've moved away from it used to be that grandparents would be like, when are you giving me a baby? Like, when you do that? And I like, when you do that? And I think most people now know that that is, like, completely unacceptable. I think it still happens, but I think there has been a little bit of a move away from that. And again, because of my work, like the people around us kind of are quite exposed to this sort of conversation through me. So my mom was sort of like being quite like, she shied away from talking to me about it, and then she called me one day, and sort of one day, and sort of was, like, anything up with you, like, I'm feeling like I don't know what's going on with you, and I at this point I was actually really struggling emotionally, but I hadn't spoken to anyone about it, massively, apart from probably really fertility friends slash colleagues, because they just felt like, and she yeah, and she called me and then asked me, and then we got into, like, to be honest, we got into a massive row, because I think she just didn't, I mean, me and my mom get on really, really well, but there was, she just misjudged what I was saying. I don't think she understood, like, how upset I was, and I think she was a little bit insensitive. And I literally, like, and I think maybe that's the first time I admitted to myself that I was so upset, like I had to be really, like, Oh, seriously. Like, I'm really struggling, like, I'm really struggling, and I'm really upset, and this is something that's bothering me. And we had a really one of those, like, you know, you have a bit of a row, but you kind of get it all out, you have a really good conversation, and, like, that was a massive turning point in her knowing what's going on. And that's kind of been the same for, like, any anyone, because I feel like in relationships, I don't mean your romantic relationships. I mean your friendships, your parental relationships, whatever, like, when there is a lack of honesty between you, which I guess, like, I'm a bit of an open book. And I thought when I'm being when I'm being private, I feel like I'm being dishonest, which isn't true, because everyone's allowed to be private, but like, I'm just like, oh, I'm not really being honest with you about what's going on with me. I'm being a little bit superficial. I'm, like, not giving you the full story. And so I think there were, for the first few months, like, you know, if I was in a bad mood or I was down or whatever, I would just be making excuses and kind of dancing on the subject and and then I would start to sort of be resentful of people for, like, not being sensitive towards me. It's like they don't know what's going on with you. So, like, I think as I slowly started to say, well, I as I started to open up to people like my mom, I was like, this, actually, I feel a lot better. Like, I feel so much better, like saying this out loud and having some support there. And then it was kind of around that time that I started to think about sharing a bit more publicly. And then as I was sharing publicly, I was like, well, I kind of do want to talk to people, because I don't want them to see all of this on Instagram. Not only that we're trying, but that I'm like, really struggling with my mental health. Like, that's quite a lot for your best friend to see on social media when they're like, hello. Like, talk to me. So I kind of like, did consciously talk to my closest friends before I started sharing publicly on social media. And I have to say, it's been, like, so helpful. So so helpful. I feel like we are, like, infertility and fertility struggles is shrouded in so much secrecy. And for some people, that's the right thing. Like, for some people, privacy and battling down the hatches, and you and your partner just really, like, you know, coming in, but if you're like me and a I'm a big mouth blabber mouth. Like, want to tell everyone everything all the time, like, like, toxically honest, like, I don't, and have, and have friends and family who, like, ultimately, are lovely and are supportive and are going to be lovely. Then I was like, Oh God, I'm so glad. I told them. I'm so so glad. And then, yeah, and then sharing it on social media has just been and you've obviously, you know, you did the same with your story. Like, it blows your mind, doesn't it? Just like, the a the amount of love and support that you can get from people who are basically strangers, but also the amount of support that they need, and just and get so much from just hearing you say, like, things that they don't sometimes have the have the confidence to say, or the space to say, or even the words to say. And like, so many times I get messages from people like, Oh my God. Like, Oh my God. Like, that's exactly how I feel. Like, thank you for sharing that, and it's just made me feel so validated, and I don't feel so alone, and all of that sort of stuff that you hear and you're just like, Oh my God. Like, all I'm doing is being an idiot and ranting about stuff that pisses me off, but if it's helping someone else, I'm just like, amazing. Like, that is just so wonderful. So yeah, I think, I actually think that sharing, both publicly and privately, has made all the difference to, like, my mental health about it 100%

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Amber Izzo  24:31  

I think there's a difference isn't there between somebody, it's all about personal choice. And so you have people that obviously, like you say, choose to keep it private because they they feel they want to. And I think there's a difference between choosing to keep it private because that's how you want to navigate it and be feeling like you have to keep it private because that support isn't there.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  24:49  

Totally. And especially with like, work and stuff like, that's the other thing that I think, is, you know, okay, look like, let's not get into a debate around where the motherhood impacts your career, because that's a whole other conversation. But, you know, I think that I am in a space where I don't give a shit if my my colleagues know that I'm trying, like we're all in this industry, but for so many people like they really can't tell their boss. So they might be going through mental health stuff, treatment, you know, whatever, needing time off, whatever that is, and just never being able to, because they really are petrified it's going to impact their career opportunities. So it's like even, you know, even in your pro your professional life, it has a huge impact.

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Amber Izzo  25:30  

Definitely, definitely. And I think you're right in that it does impact your professional life in the sense that you do have all these appointments, and as you've mentioned, certain tests do have to be done specifically for a woman, have to be done at a certain time, on a certain date, at a certain point in your cycle. Yet, it isn't as simple as saying to your boss, I need a doctor's appointment. Well, can you arrange it for a time that's a little bit more convenient? Like, no, you can't. And so when you're not sharing that, it's a lot harder to try and navigate that. And I mean, that must be something that you've like you say you have found easier because, because of the industry that you're in?

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  26:05  

Totally and just even being freelance like, I mean, I think there's a lot to be said. I think there's some incredible employers out there now who are amazing at supporting their their teams through this sort of stuff. And there is a lot more understanding. And, you know, people like Natalie and Becky with fertility at work, like they're trying for, sorry, fertility matters at work. You know, they're trying to change this, but ultimately, when it comes down to it, like, I'm a freelancer, and my doctor is around the corner from my house, so if I have to move a meeting to go and do a test, either I don't have to tell them, because it's fine. I just think we do another time, or I'll say it's a blood test and I need to in this day. And everyone under just understands so and everyone's like, everyone knows about menstrual cycles, so don't like, be like, well, let me just explain, like, what your hormones do at certain days. And this is why I have to do it. It's like, everyone I work with knows that. So I'm like, It's progesterone. It's day 21 I gotta go. And they're just like, Okay, fine. So I just, I guess, you know, I wouldn't say I feel lucky to be in this situation. Like, obviously I don't. I wish this wasn't the case, but I do feel lucky that the knowledge that I have and the support network that have around me that is informed, you know, has made this a bit easier than Well, that's me. It's made it easier and then, and yet, still, my mental health has been on the floor. So I'm like, that just shows how bad it is, because I'm like, even with all this support and all this flexibility, it's still been way harder than I thought it was going to be.

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Amber Izzo  27:22  

Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, with I know that you've recently done some content actually on your Instagram page about insensitive things that people say, and when you start telling people that you're trying to conceive, you do get comments such as, just go on holiday. In fact, I saw in a group that I'm in on Facebook earlier today, somebody had said they were trying for eight months, and somebody had commented going, honestly, just stop thinking about it, and it'll happen. It's enraging, isn't it? Because people, it is that lack of lack of education. And I like to kind of frame it as a it's not necessarily always people just being intentionally ignorant or intentionally

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  27:59  

I think, I think it rarely is. I think that vast majority of the time people are genuinely like, oh, you seem so stressed about it. Just although, I mean, I'd love to hear your take on this, I feel like when people tell me to relax or stop thinking about it, what I hear, which I don't think is maybe what they mean I hear, stop going on about it like that.

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Amber Izzo  28:20  

Yes, that's how it makes me feel

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  28:21  

I'm like, Oh, you're bored of hearing me crap on about this. So you're like, Oh, you just need to stop thinking about it. And I'm like, well, trust me, I would love to stop thinking about it. It's impossible.

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Amber Izzo  28:33  

So totally understand. And I really, I really do relate to that. And I think it is like we say, people are more often than not, not trying to be malicious, but there is just a huge lack of awareness and lack of understanding around it. And is that something that you've experienced like with I know that you've said that, obviously you do have the support, but sometimes that kind of ingrained response like people. I think humans like to try and solve problems, and if they don't know how to solve a problem, they give you a comment that's a bit wishy washy and isn't always the most helpful, but they feel like they have to give you something rather than just going, I'm really sorry that that must be really tough. It's kind of almost like human nature just to respond with, oh, have you tried this? Like they just want the problem. So have you, despite being open, still experienced comments such as that. Like, we've recently had Christmas, and I know that people obviously talk a lot about the big family Christmases, of, come on, when are you gonna have children? Or, Oh, Christmas is all about the children, those kind of comments, yeah, yeah. 

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  29:33  

I think that I haven't had those ones. I think my family are pretty now. Like, are you joking, do not even go there. But I definitely have definitely, definitely, definitely had the unsolicited device, which I feel bad, because you know that those people, like, genuinely, like, want to help. But like I said on that real I put last night, it's like, if you or your friend don't have my uterus and my partner's, like, ball sack, then, like, why is this relevant? Like, and, or have you done like, a medical study with like, 1000s of people because, like, it's just really hard because they want to help, but you're also just, like, trust me, like, all I'm doing is Googling and talking to people and talking to experts. All I'm doing is trying to solve this problem. And if it was as simple as taking like, one supplement, or, you know, eating one thing, like, I I've reached, like, trust me, like I'm trying my best, and I think that it's really hard, because I think people don't know what to say. And I think that's actually the bigger thing, isn't it? It's like, if we want conversations around fertility to be more open, which, generally, I think we do. We need to educate, you know, as a society, we need to start educating people like, what do we want to hear? Because all well and good like me, like making a funny video, like slacking people off for saying these things, but like you said, they're not being malicious. They're actually trying to help. So it's all, you know, it's fine to be like, don't say that thing, those things, but then people don't know what to say. And I think we need to empower our friends and family and just society at large with like, what do people going through fertility actually want to hear from their friends and and I think, like, you know, I certainly actually appreciate it when my friends are like, how's it going? Do you want to talk about it? Or is tonight a night that you want a bit of a distraction? And like, that is feels so good, because it feels like it gives me the space to talk if I want to, because sometimes I think people feel awkward, and then they don't ask you, because they don't want to be prying. So it's like, it's really I feel for the friends and family of people going through this, because I think it is hard to know what to say, and I think maybe that's a conversation we all need to be having a bit more.

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Amber Izzo  31:38  

Yeah, I love that. I really do love that, because I think it is so easy to kind of say, we don't want to hear this, we don't want to hear that, don't do this, don't do that, and and you're right, we're then not giving people the tools to to do that. And I do feel there's an element of it shouldn't always be kind of the role of the people going through it to educate everybody else. And I understand that quite often it falls that way, because you're the one with the one with the experience. You're the ones that are going to talk about it. But for me, personally, I remember one of my old supervisors at my last job, I told I was doing IVF. I told that I was struggling with it. He went out of his way to actually research it so that he could talk to me about it. It's support like that, isn't it? And have you found that people have kind of looked into it a little bit more and tried to support you in that way. 

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  32:23  

Yeah, do you know what? Really, really one of my best friends who's a guy, and he's gay and he's not trying for a family. So, like, in many ways, like, we couldn't be so more far removed in terms of this topic, you know, in terms of where he's at and where I'm at, but he listened to Elizabeth Day's podcast with Sarah Pascoe the other day, which was amazing, amazing. And he like, messaged me. And he was like, Oh, it literally makes me cry, like he messaged me. And he was like, I've just listened to this. And like a I think it might be helpful for you, if you're, like, in a space where you can do it, but it listened to it. But he also was just like, I could tell that it like, really helped him. It was like it just sounded exactly like what you've been saying. And I think hearing it from like, a completely different source, like, just, like, almost crystallize it in his mind. Of like, oh, like, this isn't just my friend and Coni going through this thing. Like, this is how women feel going through this. And it was just like, really lovely that he, like, had that realization and reached out to me. And I think then the next time we saw each other, he like, again, like, we could talk a bit more about it, because I think he just got it a bit better as well. And so I think you're right. I think it makes so much difference when people kind of like, and it's also kind of just nice to know that people are thinking about you. Because, like, I think sometimes when you, like, get onto a bit of a rant about it, and you can just see people slightly glazing over, and you over, and you just think, Oh, God, I've become, like, this boring, like, mate that, like, all I do now is go on about, like, cervical mucus and my menstrual cycle, and you're like, what happened? Like, I used to be fun. And so it's really nice. I think when people go away and then they just sort of send you those messages, like, hey, like, I saw this and thought of you. Or, actually, I read this, and maybe I wouldn't have read it before, or might have skipped that bit, but I listened to it because I thought it might help me help you. And it's really beautiful when that happens.

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Amber Izzo  34:07  

Yeah, that's so kind. It sounds like you have got good friends around, always, always nice. I mean, you touched on, like googling things.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  34:18  

The nightmare 

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Amber Izzo  34:19  

It can be very easy to kind of get sucked into that. And obviously Google has anything and everything you could possibly do, but in all these different kind of from all these different outlets with slightly different things like that. I mean, how has it been for you trying to navigate that and kind of cut through, let's call it the noise, and yeah, through that and figure out, actually, what your next steps are and what you do need to do, what you don't need to do.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  34:44  

I think it's really, really important. And I think this comes back to a little bit like, the you know, have you tried this? Have you tried that? I think we all need to recognize, like, how personal fertility is, not just like it's a personal thing, but like, literally, every single person's. This, and couples situation is unique, like there are so I think we think it's like there's a few different things that could be wrong, and it's like, no, there are so many things that could be going on. So I think that once you take a step back and understand I need to find out what is going on with me and with my partner, and what route we need to take and what support we need. I think once you really get your head around that it can, you can kind of start to go, okay, so, you know, all of these blogs, all these Google articles, they're always going to give, like, some vague thing that doesn't necessarily mean it's right for us, or the scary stuff that doesn't necessarily mean that that's what's happening for us again, like, I think it's a real privilege to be able to pay for personalized care, be that speaking to a nutritionist, or, you know, going for reflexology, or, you know, all those sorts of things. And I think, like, again, I've had many friends that have supported me, and they're amazing practitioners, but I know that that's not always accessible for everyone. And like, I wish it was, like, I wish this sort of more holistic care was available in the NHS. It's not. But, I mean, I think a really good piece of advice is to see what's out there in terms of group things, because I have friends that run like, really small coaching courses and stuff around. Like, might be nutrition for fertility, or it might just be understanding your cycle and understanding stuff. And because they're small courses, like, you get so much personalized support. And I think that can make such a difference. It's like, why I don't tell people what supplements I take? You know, I'm forever asked, and I'm like, I'm not going to start being like, well, I take this and I take that, because really, your supplement program should be about what you are deficient in and what you need. And I think we seem to think that, like, we're all this, like, homogenous group that, like, if we all do this, we're all going to get pregnant. It's like, just not how it works. Like, I think finding a way to find, like, you know, tracking your menstrual cycle, like, really understanding your cycle, like your normal your hormones, like, same for your partner, it's like, so important. So I think, like, early testing is something I'm really passionate about. And again, like, all of these things aren't necessarily accessible to everyone, which is really a shame. But I do think that is where we need to be putting our energy into when it comes to supporting our fertility, because if we just keep following, like, cookie cutter advice, cookie cutter advice that we've, like, read off a blog at 3am in the morning or someone saying this, work for me, you should do this like we just go round and round in circles and never actually find the root cause of the issue.

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Amber Izzo  37:22  

Yeah, I think that's actually a really responsible kind of route to take. Like, I think people, obviously people want to find what works. And I think people do when people are taking things, etc, like you mentioned, the supplements, I think people are just kind of hanging on to try and find information that might work for them too.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  37:40  

Yeah. 

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Amber Izzo  37:42  

You're so right. But I think when you do have a platform, you do have that responsibility and absolutely caveat that, and kind of saying, you know, I've got this specialist advice based on my own personal experience, and it might not be the right thing for you. At the end of the day, whatever we put into our bodies has an impact on something. And saying, You need to be sure, don't you?

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  38:00  

Exactly and I feel like you, you can become so manic and consumed by like, all of the advice and and I think actually, like, something that we've talked about a lot, Mike and I, and has actually been a priority, is like, I'm not willing to, like, drive our relationship and our mental well being into the floor in the pursuit of a family. Like, trust me, like, I want a baby more than anything, but I also, like, I come from a broken home, like, I'm not gonna, like, you know, in two years time have a baby, like, I actually hate you, and I hate I haven't seen my friends in two years, and I haven't had fun in so long. I've lost myself. And like, our relationship is, you know, we've just become nagging each other about, like, well, you you know, had a beer last week, and that's probably why we're not, like, I'm just not willing for that to happen. So I've really, like, yes, there's loads of advice out there, and yes, I'm doing everything I can. But I'm also like, the actual priority for me is I want a happy family, and not just a baby. And a happy family comes from happy parents and a good relationship, and good relationship to your friends and a good sense of self. And I just hear these stories. And, you know, I mean, look like I said, I'm pretty early on in my in my thing compared to some people. I'm sure if you come back in three or four years time, maybe I'll be completely teetotal than you know, only eating kale. But right now I'm like, there has to be some balance, because it's so hard and so miserable that you need to enjoy your life as well. 

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Amber Izzo  39:33  

I really... That's it. Actually giving me goosebumps, hearing you kind of say all of that, because I think you're so right, and it is so hard, because it does consume your whole life, and it does it can very easily impact your relationships and the way that you feel and everything else. I think that's such a level headed approach to have, and I know that that when we met last year, I remember having this conversation with you and saying that, you know, towards the end of our kind of. Uh, journey. That's when we realized, actually, this is having such a huge turn we need, we need to fix this. And it is so hard.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  40:08  

It is. And I think, like, I feel like maybe my work in this world and having, you know, conversations with you, like, how lucky am I to have that it's like, I feel like it might have, um, accelerated the sort of personal growth of us, like, feel like we hit really rock bottom, sort of like the second half of last year, I would say the second half of last year, we were just like, in the weeds, just like, really bad mental health, like getting, like, bad news after bad news, like it not happening, blah, blah, and we were just in such a bad place. And I feel like we've both, like, fairly quickly, I guess, like, it didn't, didn't feel quick at the time. But realistically, we had a few months of feeling like this, and then we were like, Whoa. Like, we've got us. We've got to sort this out. And I think for some people, like, maybe that takes a bit longer, like, the process of going down and up again. And we kind of went like, Hey, Bob, run really fast. And they were like, right, we're going straight back up. And I do think that's because I am really lucky, and especially like on the male side, like I'm friends with, like Sean and Kieran, you know, from the male fertility podcast, and that they've been able to, like, talk to us about the male side of stuff. So I'm feel so lucky that I have this support network, and it has how and it has helped me get there quicker. But I think that's the biggest thing that I see from everyone, like yourself and others that share their story, that there's so much growth that can come from this, like, there's so much growth that can come from this horrible time, like, both in your partnership and yourself, and I'm just like, trying to lean into that a little bit as well. 

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Amber Izzo  41:31  

Yeah. I mean, so kind of next step wise, obviously, you said that you you're aware that you might, might need to go down the route of treatment. So, I mean, how, how educated are you on that? Like, how much have you looked into, like, clinics and the cost and, yeah, navigating that side of things?

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  41:49  

That's a really good question, because I think, like, that's kind of like, I'm also very much a fixer, so I'm like, and that's why I hate the waiting. It just, obviously, everyone hates waiting. But I'm just like, right, let's crack on with it now. Like, let's, let's, let's go for it. So I have researched it a little bit. So we're based in Brighton, so we're in Sussex, so in terms of the post covid Lottery, we're actually pretty good. Like, we can get three rounds of IVF amazing on the NHS. So, oh, that's so good. That's amazing. So that's a, really, that's a kind of a way of our mind, in a way, I mean, like, I mean, I know you're not even guaranteed to get it in three rounds and, you know, but obviously, like, that's huge. So that's a really good thing, and that's why, you know, we are going through the NHS and kind of, like, I'm willing to be patient, because if we can get free treatment, like, that's incredible, right? So I think that we are, we're just waiting to go into the into, like I said, my test, and then I don't know what the waiting list looks like from there. I mean, it's taken this long for me to I haven't even been called up yet for my investigations, so I'm a bit like, Okay, if this is the wait list to put some dye to my fallopian tubes, and, like, what's the wait list actual treatment? So I guess that's something that we'll find out. Like, once we find out, like, once we finally get those appointments. And I guess in the meantime, something that I'm really passionate about is that IVF is amazing and, like, obviously necessary for some people. And if that's the way that we go, like, Fine, great. But we have to keep working on our health in the meantime and ensure that, like, egg quality and sperm quality, like, the best that they can be. And I think that, like, sometimes we think, like, IVF, is this? Like, oh, you just go for IVF, and then you get a baby, and it's like, that's not how it works. Like, there are so many things that can go wrong. You know, it's an incredible like, technology, like, it's absolutely amazing, but it's like, you have to give it a helping hand by doing everything you can to support your health. So I think we, right now are on like, a bit of a health kick. Like, you know, kind of January, it was so easy, like, we both did, like, no alcohol. Mike's training for a marathon, so he's, like, off booze. And, you know, we're just having, like, a really healthy few months and focusing on that a little bit with the view of that means that when we get our next set of tests, we know that we've done everything we can, and that's like a real clear baseline of what's going on. If we get called up for treatment and we start that quicker than we thought, we're ready, you know, so I think we're just right now, you know, trying to, like, kind of thinking it could happen naturally in the meantime, but if we end up going down the IVF route towards, you know, the mid second half of this year. We just want to be in the best position possible, both mentally and physically, because it's so it's taxing in a different way, right? Like, I think that trying naturally is like this quite like, literally cyclical thing, of like, ups and downs and waiting or whatever. And I guess an IVF cycle is a cycle as well, you know. And I think that that will be a complete shift for us to get our heads around that and a whole different type of pressure. But I feel like if we're feeling strong mentally and physically, then it'll be better for us.

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Amber Izzo  44:50  

For sure, for sure. Amazing. Coni, thank you so much for joining us. It really has been such a pleasure talking to you, and I think it's really refreshing to kind of hear somebody's journey from the early stages, that's, you know, going through it all and sharing it all. And I really think you're amazing. So thank you so so much. And just before we finish, let everybody know where they can find you. 

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  45:12  

So I'm on Instagram at, @conilj, I'm, like, venturing into Tiktok, but I'm 33 like, I'm really not interested. But who knows, maybe I'll be the next Tiktok star. You never know. But no, Instagram is generally where I hang out. And, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm overwhelmed by people reaching out. And if you want to chat, I'm there. I'm really, really happy to and, and like, Amber, thank you. I mean, Gaia is amazing. I'm like, just in awe of what they do and what you do. And as I said numerous times in this podcast, I'm really grateful for your support. It's massively helped over the last year.

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Amber Izzo  45:46  

Oh bless your heart. Thank you so much, Coni, and we will see you soon.

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Coni Longden-Jefferson  45:50  

Thanks so much, Amber. Bye,

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Amber Izzo  45:53  

Coni, everyone. She was so great to talk to. It's so important to hold space for everyone on their fertility journeys, and there is no right way to feel whether you've been trying to conceive for six weeks or six years. It comes with challenges, and it comes with emotions that are absolutely valid. If you resonate with Coni's story, we're sending you so much love and support on your journey. We'll be back next week for another fabulous guest and another great episode of misconception. But until then, make sure you subscribe to and rate this podcast. Follow us on socials at Gaia family official, and we will see you next week. 

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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